Speaking with Natalie about my sense that the hacklabs represented a really important innovation at the level the socialisation of knowledge and technology, whe argued that the US constituted the exception through an absence of this public culture. To substantiate this she described the culktural spaces all over Europe that she had visited. Furthermore she argued that certain galleries and cultural spaces in new york were compelled to fill this vacuum, and that ultimately the Thing provided the same possibilities as the Interactivist Media Lab at ABC No Rio.